Beware Vista’s New Licensing

Before rushing out to buy your retail copy of Vista, you may want to take a look at Microsoft’s new license terms.

Licenses for the Windows Vista operating system differ from those for Windows XP in that they limit the number of times retail editions can be transferred to another device and ban the two least-expensive versions from running in a virtual machine.

The licenses, which can be viewed on Vista’s official blog add new restrictions to how and where Windows can be used. “The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device,” reads the license for Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, Ultimate, and Business. In other words, once a retail copy of Vista is installed on a PC, it can be moved to another system only once.
The license also forbids users from installing Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium in a virtual machine. “You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system”. Ultimate and Vista Business, however, can be installed within a Virtual Machine. Meaning if you are running Basic or Premium in a VM, you’re violating the license.

Vista will also strip OS functionality should validation fail. What people feared with activation in XP is now coming true in Vista. The OS will periodically “validate” itself, and if it finds that you are a “dirty pirate” it will limit your use. Also the fact that it only allows you to transfer a license once has ramifications for PC enthusiasts. If you have a Vista-equipped PC and you rebuild it, you must transfer the license. You can never again repeat the process. Some people are used to replacing many components of their PC quite often, going through an entire rig in mere months. Enthusiasts beware!!

The Vista license calls out the ramifications of a failed validation check of Vista:
The software will from time to time validate the software, update or require download of the validation feature of the software,” it reads. “If after a validation check, the software is found not to be properly licensed, the functionality of the software may be affected.”

Vista’s new anti-piracy technologies, dubbed “Software Protection Platform,” have met with skepticism by analysts and criticism by users. Under the new program, a copy of Vista that’s judged to be in violation of its license, or is counterfeit, is disabled after a set period, leaving the user access only to the default Web browser, and then only for an hour at a time.

60 Comments:

mirage

13 Oct '06, 3:58 pm
This is getting more ridiculous with every release. I hate calling MS on the phone to reactivate Windows everytime I upgrade my desktop computers. I had to do this so many times. Well, I can easily say that Windows is not an OS for enthusiasts anymore, if they limit number of reactivations.

I am already running all of my folding rigs with Linux but I will much more seriously reconsider using Linux on desktops as well.
Sledgehammer70

13 Oct '06, 4:42 pm
If I can't upgrade my PC than i won't be buying Vista... I upgrade my PC to many times to count... they better have a way for us Hard core PC guys to be able to upgrade and not worry,or Cracks will become very popular....
airbornflght

13 Oct '06, 5:05 pm

Quoting Sledgehammer70

If I can't upgrade my PC than i won't be buying Vista... I upgrade my PC to many times to count... they better have a way for us Hard core PC guys to be able to upgrade and not worry,or Cracks will become very popular....

Yeh, this is rediculous. I expect a 3rd party workaround fairly quickly after the release. I dont upgrade that often, but even at that, I do it 2-3 time a year, so is MS telling me Im going to have to buy a new copy every 9-12 months? sure....
skywalker45

13 Oct '06, 6:00 pm
This is preposterous and will NEVER fly in communities like ours. I, like airbornflght, believe a 3rd party workaround will be coming soon after release or MS will come off this ridiculous idea when they realize there are those who change rigs 3 times/year.
TheSmJ

13 Oct '06, 6:08 pm
I guess I'll be waiting for the hacker community to catch up to their tricks before I buy a legit copy of Vista.

Microsoft is basicly forcing our community to rip-off their software. I have enough trouble stomaching the idea of buying a new copy of Vista for each machine I own, let alone the same upgraded machine.
QCH

13 Oct '06, 6:34 pm

Quoting TheSmJ

Microsoft is basicly forcing our community to rip-off their software.

That's what gets me... we're not ripping MS off. If we own the copy and we own the hardware, I want to be able to install the darn OS as many times as I want. END OF STORY.... It's not ripping MS off.

Microsoft, you had better re-think how you implement this idea!!!! It's gonna bite you in the butt and cost you more than you can image!!!
maxclark

13 Oct '06, 6:43 pm

Quoting QCH2002

That's what gets me... we're not ripping MS off. If we own the copy and we own the hardware, I want to be able to install the darn OS as many times as I want. END OF STORY.... It's not ripping MS off.

Microsoft, you had better re-think how you implement this idea!!!! It's gonna bite you in the butt and cost you more than you can image!!!

amen there brother...
Thrax

13 Oct '06, 6:53 pm
Microsoft just made sure money I would probably never spend definitely wasn't going to get spent.

Remember the days when you could buy one copy of something, and do whatever the hell you wanted with it because it was yours? Yeah.
godzilla525

13 Oct '06, 7:03 pm
Nice. The only reason I ever put up with XP is that I was able to get an activation-free Pro version through the school. Legally.

The real fun's going to come when I have to teach my mom how to use Linux.

I'm not sure how far along Wine is coming with emulation as far as game performance, but it looks like I'll definitely be switching to Linux regardless.

Way to lose customers, Microsoft.
skywalker45

13 Oct '06, 7:35 pm

Way to lose customers, Microsoft.

They've been sitting themselves up for this for years. It's no wonder the open source community has a huge open sore for MS for more than one reason. This just gives them another, plus it gives the malware community another reason to attack Windows, apart from the usual online fraud, theft, etc.
Leonardo

13 Oct '06, 7:53 pm
Linux is starting to look attractive. Does MS really want Vista to gain the reputation as the preferred operating system for corporate slugboxes and granny machines? I guess that's where the money is. I'm hoping they'll moderate the licensing. Right now it is assumed that only one or two upgrades might be considered by MS as "transfers." I hope that is only a present assumption and that it will be proven wrong - premature.
Gargoyle

13 Oct '06, 8:06 pm
This is outrageous. Microsoft is going to go down with its DRM & licensing ship someday if they stick to this line.

One of the posters on the blog said it best:

Between Vista's tight licensing and unreliable Genuine "Advantage"[sic], there's no way people who know what they're getting into will want to use it.
skywalker45

13 Oct '06, 8:21 pm

Quoting Gargoyle

Microsoft is going to go down with its DRM & licensing ship someday if they stick to this line.

You couldn't be more right, based on this news, if they don't come off this crap their stern is already out of the water.
primesuspect

13 Oct '06, 8:49 pm
There's just no way this is going to happen. They cannot restrict licensing based on hardware changes and force you to buy a new copy if, say, your motherboard dies, or your hard drive crashes, or your processor goes dead. This would get them into the hairy realm of liability - as in:

"I am a customer whose Hitachi hard drive died. Now, I have to buy a new copy of Vista because of their restrictive licensing. It is not my fault my hard drive died. Therefore, I am telling Hitachi that they need to pay for my copy of Vista."

"My ATI video card burned up. Now I'm going to make ATI buy me a new copy of Vista".

Seriously. This just won't fly. I'm sure we're not hearing the whole story.
PieIsAwesome

13 Oct '06, 8:51 pm
Unacceptable and outrageous.

I cheer the hackers on, but even with patches it's still going to be a pain in the rear-end to have to deal with this every time you install windows.
I also hate Microsoft getting into my computer and into my business. Please, stay out, or I simply won't buy the software and/or resort to 3rd party patches to bypass this garbage.

Worst of all, MS is shoving this down our throats.
Want DirectX 10? Buy Vista.

I've never tried Linux, but now it's looking very appetizing.
And new stuff is always fun. =D
Esso

13 Oct '06, 9:14 pm
I guess this is what we need, a gently push in the other direction, towards Linux.

The more Microsoft complicates things for the normal user, the less they will sale in the end.

I said once and I said it now.

Hasta la Vista baby - I will not be back.
drasnor

13 Oct '06, 9:44 pm
From the Alternative OS subforum: We look forward to helping ease your transition!

-drasnor
Enverex

13 Oct '06, 9:53 pm
Indeed, form an orderly queue children, Thrax, stop throwing paper airplanes at nomad.
jared

13 Oct '06, 9:55 pm
I doubt this goes over like prime said, however it does sound like MS... always tyring to give the honest user a blow to the nuts.

I have been using Vista RC1 and OSX for the past couple of weeks (Vista on my main rig, and osx on my macbook) and imho OSX is just a better OS period. It is quicker (it is sad when my macbook can compete with my main rig) and more productive.

Now that I don't have time to game anymore, there is really not a whole lot keeping me stuck on windows. Once adobe CS3 comes out in q1 of 2007, I wouldn't mind trading my main machine for a MacPro... if i decide I need windows in the future I can always run it with bootcamp or parrallels.

cheers

oh yeah if anyone has toyed around with the new ubuntu in the works (efty i believe).. it is pure sex.
lemonlime

13 Oct '06, 10:36 pm
If that really were to happen, it would be an incredably dumb move. It is really simple.. if you don't mind being limited on the number of installs.. buy OEM.. if you pay the ludicrous price for the retail version, you should bloody well be allowed to upgrade your PC as many times as you friggin like. With all of the excessive protection built into windows these days, why the hell would you not be allowed to move it to an upgraded PC. It's not like you could get away with having it run on two PCs simultaneously.

I tend to agree with prime and jared, this will most likely not happen. Just seems like it has bad press written all over it. The licencing is already strict enough, this is the last thing we need. It is really bad when those of us who actually buy the software get the dirty end of the stick
Hawk

13 Oct '06, 11:17 pm
I'm with mirage.
I'll probably star learning to use Linux on all my pc's.
This will most likely push a great deal of other people to do the same.
RWB

13 Oct '06, 11:32 pm
I wasn't liking Vista much before reading this... now I utterly dispise it. I am with Prime and Jared though, I think I recall it goingdown like this before XP's release and they dumbed it down. I am beginning to wonder if they do this on purpose so that when most of this doesn't happen, the things that do happen look less hidious.

I am beginning to like OSX more and more, and contemplating Linux which I never liked much becuase it's utterly difficult to understand. OSX would at least allow some of my more important programs to work still.

Vista was a beautiful OS, but IMHO it was a pain to use, I can't describe what exactly it was, but it was just akward and I didn't like it much. Not very linear I suppose.
GrayFox

14 Oct '06, 12:54 am
Gota love microsoft.[/sarcasim]
fade

14 Oct '06, 1:33 am
This is going to drive a big growth in macs. I got a new imac core duo after being on the windows side for the last 7 years and I have to admit, the thing is really well designed. Maybe not the best game box, but it's absolutely silent and amazing for getting work done--things just work, except for their mouse, which sucks ass. I think enthusiasts are going to start to get two machines more often--one for work and another for gaming.
TheSmJ

14 Oct '06, 1:39 am
The more I think about it the more impossible it sounds. Nevertheless we'll all have to wait another month for Vista's offical release to know for sure.
Gravite2090

14 Oct '06, 2:19 am
All Windows users should revert back to Win2k
skywalker45

14 Oct '06, 3:00 am

Quoting Gravite2090

All Windows users should revert back to Win2k

Ahhh, Windows 2000....Good times, stable times.....the times of our lives....
profdlp

14 Oct '06, 3:07 am

Quoting Gravite2090

All Windows users should revert back to Win2k

Some of them have, but not me. (At least not yet. )

Quoting RWB

...I am with Prime and Jared though, I think I recall it going down like this before XP's release and they dumbed it down. I am beginning to wonder if they do this on purpose so that when most of this doesn't happen, the things that do happen look less hideous...

That makes a whole lot of sense to me. After reading the first post in this thread, practically anything they do which is not quite so draconian will look reasonable by comparison.

I will say this, though. While I have always bought a legitimate copy of Windows and have denounced piracy, if they do actually try a stunt like this I may just have to start rooting for the pirates. (And I don't mean the ones in Pittsburgh.) They would be handing a ready-made excuse to everyone in the world wanting a free ride, who could just claim that they are justified on the grounds that they upgrade their system frequently.
Thrax

14 Oct '06, 3:28 am
I'd install Win2000 in a heartbeat if it wouldn't butcher my existing partitions on a 48-bit drive.
QCH

14 Oct '06, 3:34 am
WinXP is where I'd love to stop. As a Support Guy... I love remote desktop and remote assitance that is built into WinXP Pro. No need to try another 3rd party application to do it. No problems with kerberos authentication, no problem with privilages, no problems with conflicts... Remote Desktop/ Assistance just works.

I'm know that my company will be 10% Vista-ized by this time next year.
FatFunkey

14 Oct '06, 6:04 am
random question i rmeber hearing some where u could install a copy of XP on a PC and then install it on your laptop and it it would work

now looking at this i dont want to buy 2 freaking copies of Vista so my PC and laptop can run it...thats freaking lame, for once im pretty pissed off at pirates because the only reason this is happing is becuase of pirating...even though i myself have pirated software(though i dont pirate OS), mmm being a hypocrite... sigh oh well 50bucks says there will be a work around with in a matter of weeks
RWB

14 Oct '06, 6:34 am
There'll be a workaround before release.
Mal51

14 Oct '06, 7:27 am
There very damn well should be. This is ridiculous. I'm already pissed because I've had to call Microsoft several times to reactivate Windows due to reformats, and the like. Two times? Yeah right. Looks like I'll be learning Linux in the coming months.
muddocktor

14 Oct '06, 11:55 am
Like many other here, Vista at best looked like an dubious upgrade to me, with all the damn bloatware that it comes with. But with this proposed new EULA it isn't acceptable at all. I had already made the decision to start playing with Ubuntu before this and this kind of crap will make me accelerate my learning schedule.

If Steve Jobs would get his snobbish head out of his own @ss and look, he would see an opportunity here for him to make mass inroads into the x86 OS market if he would open up and sell OSX that would install in non-Apple computers.

And as for the OEM's, they also need to make a change in their offerings too. As it stands now, you really can't choose your OS to something besides M$ crap from the major OEM's for consumer computers. So if you want to get a computer from a major OEM, you will be stuck paying the MS tax as I call it, making you buy their OS with the box. Sounds to me like this would be good material for a class action suit.

One other thing about this incredibly restrictive EULA; how the hell is this supposed to stop piracy. If anything, this will only encourage piracy and go and make thousands of otherwise law-abiding people go the piracy route just so they don't get ****ed by M$ after spending $300+ for this OS.
T-LAM-C

14 Oct '06, 3:12 pm
If MS actually pushes this crap I will nail the coffin shut on my use of windows! I dont think they're asking any of us our opinion in this licensing scheme or including this in their customer feedback forum. Ive never used anything else but have often thought about Apple and now am considering Linux!
skywalker45

14 Oct '06, 4:31 pm

Quoting QCH2002

WinXP is where I'd love to stop. As a Support Guy... I love remote desktop and remote assitance that is built into WinXP Pro. No need to try another 3rd party application to do it. No problems with kerberos authentication, no problem with privilages, no problems with conflicts... Remote Desktop/ Assistance just works.

I'm know that my company will be 10% Vista-ized by this time next year.

100% agreed. They should stop right here at the junction of win2k and NT. No real need to go any further. Of course, that's just my opinion. And just for the record I'm a support guy too, for both Windows and Linux.
289Mustang

14 Oct '06, 9:55 pm

Quoting primesuspect

There's just no way this is going to happen. They cannot restrict licensing based on hardware changes and force you to buy a new copy if, say, your motherboard dies, or your hard drive crashes, or your processor goes dead. This would get them into the hairy realm of liability - as in:

"I am a customer whose Hitachi hard drive died. Now, I have to buy a new copy of Vista because of their restrictive licensing. It is not my fault my hard drive died. Therefore, I am telling Hitachi that they need to pay for my copy of Vista."

"My ATI video card burned up. Now I'm going to make ATI buy me a new copy of Vista".

Seriously. This just won't fly. I'm sure we're not hearing the whole story.

Wow, a voice of reason on teh Interweb. Whodathunk!
SPIKE09

15 Oct '06, 8:46 pm
you can add another to the not buying into vista's whole can of worm's. 9 genuine copies of Xp home and pro in this home time to try linux again methinks.
TheSmJ

16 Oct '06, 8:03 am
Turns out the Vista Licensing is the exact same as XP's. If you reinstall Windows to an upgraded machine after you already activated it once before, you just have to call support, rather than use the automatic online activation.

Source here: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4548

So in short, nothing has changed in terms of licensing between XP and Vista. You'll be able to do everything with Vista that you have with XP. Nothing more nothing less.

To futher clarify; The "Nevermind the fact that I just called you to reactivate 5 minutes ago... I just replaced the motherboard and no other machine has this copy of Windows installed" excuse to the activation rep will still work.
Leonardo

16 Oct '06, 3:35 pm
Thanks for the link.
CB

16 Oct '06, 3:53 pm
I'm with Prime on the Vista issue.

I keep being told that I need to switch to Linux if I want to continue using computers after this year because of Vista's new rules and restrictions, but my responce has been the same from the beginning of the issue:

"It simply cannot happen"

Microsoft is not stupid. They are in the bussiness of making money, just like every other bussiness, and they will not produce a product that is so restrictive it pushed their entire guru customer base to another supplier.

You might argue that they don't care about the gurus because all of the money is in family PCs and enterprise copmputing. Well, frankly, if that were the case, then they would remove all of the restrictions, since those two market segments are the least likely to pirate the software...

Even if they do release Vista with all these restrictions (which they wont), they wont last, MS would see pretty quickly that it's not going to be tolerated, and by the time we all have to convert (at least a year after release, since it takes that long for enterprise operations to switch to a new OS), there will be methods for letting us do so successfully, whether they come from MS or third parties is all that remains to be seen...

The first hack that we will see gain popularity, IMO: a crack that allows DirectX 10 to function in XP.
GHoosdum

16 Oct '06, 5:10 pm

Quoting CB Droege

Even if they do release Vista with all these restrictions (which they wont), they wont last, MS would see pretty quickly that it's not going to be tolerated, and by the time we all have to convert (at least a year after release, since it takes that long for enterprise operations to switch to a new OS), there will be methods for letting us do so successfully, whether they come from MS or third parties is all that remains to be seen...

A year? That's optimistic. I don't anticipate my company migrating to Vista until 2010.

Quoting CB Droege

The first hack that we will see gain popularity, IMO: a crack that allows DirectX 10 to function in XP.

Did you just stand up and volunteer? You'd better get to coding.
Leonardo

16 Oct '06, 5:23 pm
Is Microsoft actually thinking ahead on the DirectX front? Perhaps "DirectX 9.L" will be the DirectX 10 for Windows XP.
CB

16 Oct '06, 6:55 pm
I said at least a year. Your right that it proly wont happen for most companies until about the 3 year mark if history is any indication.
airbornflght

16 Oct '06, 6:58 pm
I wont buy vista. I am hoping that linux wont be so alternative in a couple of years. Ubunto is gaining popularity, and is fastly becoming user friendly, I will install it on the next computer that I build for my parents; which they are about due for. I dont really care about the licensing near as much as the overall operating system and how bloated it is. With not a whole lot of overall improvements.
Leonardo

16 Oct '06, 9:20 pm
Concerning DirectX 10/9.L, Thrax dedicated thread to that topic here.
TheSmJ

16 Oct '06, 10:21 pm
You guys did see the link I posted on the last page right? "The rules" aren't any different than XP.
csimon

17 Oct '06, 12:40 am
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4548
Gargoyle

17 Oct '06, 1:07 am

Quoting csimon

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4548

After reading that, I'm still confused as to whether a motherboard change uses up your one chance to transfer the license to another computer. It seems like the most likely scenario is that it wouldn't, and the prohibition of transferring the license is just a restriction that just doesn't have any enforceability. Without infringing on our right to upgrade a computer, that is.
Enverex

17 Oct '06, 1:09 am
It sounds like Vista will think it does, but you ring up and get a new activation code so it doesn't.
TheSmJ

17 Oct '06, 2:03 am

Quoting Enverex

It sounds like Vista will think it does, but you ring up and get a new activation code so it doesn't.

Right. Just like XP does already.
QCH

17 Oct '06, 4:13 am

Quoting Gargoyle

After reading that, I'm still confused as to whether a motherboard change uses up your one chance to transfer the license to another computer. It seems like the most likely scenario is that it wouldn't, and the prohibition of transferring the license is just a restriction that just doesn't have any enforceability. Without infringing on our right to upgrade a computer, that is.

11. Rather than purchase completely new PCs, my organization performs in-place upgrades to the hardware on many of our computers. We often times only replace the motherboard, processor, and memory. Since the COA is still on the case and the OS is still installed on the hard drive, this computer is still licensed, right?

ANSWER. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your computer and maintain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer." Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from one computer to another. Therefore, if the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer has been created, the original license expires, and a new full operating system license (not upgrade) is required. This is true even if the computer is covered under Software Assurance or other Volume License programs.

More info here...
Gargoyle

17 Oct '06, 4:24 am
Does that apply to retail copies as well as OEM?
QCH

17 Oct '06, 4:41 am
I do not believe so....
Leonardo

17 Oct '06, 5:30 am

if the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer has been created, the original license expires, and a new full operating system license (not upgrade) is required. This is true even if the computer is covered under Software Assurance or other Volume License programs.

I've replaced a motherboard on an OEM WinXP copy before. Yes, I did have to re-validate over the telephone. I spoke very clearly, was polite and respectful, and the validation went through without a hitch.
airbornflght

17 Oct '06, 11:59 am
hmm. ok

so if I happen to replace a mobo with vista installed, i guess it is going to have to of 'failed'
Gargoyle

17 Oct '06, 12:35 pm

Quoting airbornflght

hmm. ok

so if I happen to replace a mobo with vista installed, i guess it is going to have to of 'failed'

But it did fail. It failed at providing you the 3dmarks that you so rightly deserve
QCH

17 Oct '06, 2:00 pm
I, too, have replaced the motherboard on a Tiger-Direct PC... I had to call and re-validate. I was polite and MS provided a install code without any problems. But according to their license, they do not have to do that. I think, for the most part, they are going to re-validate. If they start seeing several calls in a short time all on the same PC... they may just say no and point to the license.
speed_x

21 Oct '06, 4:38 pm
Hi folks,

This Windows Vista activation and checking is getting absurd! I had never considered running a hacked copy of Windows 'till XP came out with the activation/confirmation thingy.

Let me explain: I'm a computer enthusiast and think nothing of re-configuring my box...the whole thing! I think nothing of testing a new configuration, new hardware, new software, etc, etc

Most of my configuration/testing isn't on a permanent basis. In short order I will grab the next idea and fly with it. That's how I learn and what I like to do.

Once I realized how much it was costing me (time-wise) to get on the phone with Microsoft each time I re-configured my computer, my mission became to hack into my own, legally acquired copy of Windows XP.

I do think Microsoft should rethink their policy and make room for the enthusiast community. We might not be a very big community, but we are a very active one.

The reason for our hyper-activity:
Tearing into our computers and testing different ideas or configurations is our way of having fun! What most folks consider an incredible headache - or challenge - we can't wait to go there, and perhaps bleed on the edge!

Mind you, I've never sold or distributed copies of my legally purchased Windows XP Operating System. I use it on my computer, for my very own pleasure and would never consider the option of becoming any kind of a pirate. However, my legal copy of Windows XP residing in the one and only computer I run it on...was "adjusted" by yours truly not to require re-activation when I do hardware changes.

In the same way that I took Windows product activation as a slap-in-the-face from Microsoft - and set out to circumvent it any way I could - should send a clear signal to Microsoft, since it's coming from the "legally installed" user base.
profdlp

21 Oct '06, 10:07 pm
I just upgraded my hard drive and at the second boot got the good ol' "Your computers hardware has changed significantly..." nonsense.

If it does that in WinXP, I hate to think what WinVi is going to be like.

Beware Vista’s New Licensing

60 Comments:

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